[ninja250rRed]

Hi, My name is shafia

I got my 09 250r in august and didn't have much riding in the fall. Now that its a lot warmer I am riding a little more. Today I noticed something In traffic my rpm gradually increased as I was at the same speed as the engine got warmer. 40MPh at 4.5 turned in 40MPh at 5.5k. Just a few minutes ago I checked the idle rpm and its seems fine 1.3k. I also turned the handlebars left and right not difference in RPM. This is bugging me please help if anyone can thanks.

Also, it has just a little over 1k miles and hasn't gone to the dealer after the break in period.

 

[DaBlue1]

I posted this a while back on another forum;

I had my IC Igniter (ignition/timing control ) replaced because it was not working properly. In high outside temps (80 degrees or above) the tachometer would be off any where between 200-500 rpms. That was at idle and throughout the range of gears and speeds. This would only happen after extended riding time in the heat. It ran fine when it was cooler.

It has been noted by Kawasaki that there was a design flaw in the 2008 Ninja 250 IC Igniter ( susceptible to heat ) and apparently they were changed (improvements) somewhere in the production line for the 2008's. Kawasaki says they have not had a problem in the 2009's, however 2009's did not ship until the winter when avg temps are much cooler. New owners and riders with stock gearing will get varying high rpm's anyway that may go unnoticed and my not have extended riding times in the heat. Trying to keep it (the IC Igniter) cool may not solve the problem.

My bike is a 2009 that had the same problem. The reason I noticed it was because when I changed my gearing (15/42) it made rpm and speed readings almost match, (for example; 1200- approx 1350 rpm @ idle, 5000 [email protected] approx 50 mph, 6000 [email protected] approx 60mph) which was normal in cool conditions.
When the IC Igniter malfunctioned the readings were off.

So now my IC Igniter is replaced. With the new one there was an immediate response in pick up and power throughout the range of gears that was not there before. It was almost like I had gained some horsepower somewhere. What ever the improvement to The IC Igniter is definitely apparent . Slightly better throttle response, stronger pulling, smoothed out rpm's and I'm hoping better gas mpg.

I don't know what exactly Kawasaki did, whether the timing is change 1/2 degree or so or just overall better programming and components. but it was worth replacing....for now. Now I just have to wait until the temps start staying in the 80's to see if it is truly fixed.

So if you have a 2008 or 2009 with this problem I recommend letting Kawasaki fix it under warranty. Keep an eye out on your speed and rpm's, that will be your gauge. The cost of the IC Igniter is $370.00 if you were to replace it yourself.


...The dealership will have to go on your word as the customer with a problem. If you have a good dealership they will make the call to Kawasaki to verify the info you give them. Understand the dealership doesn't make a nickel off of you for warranty repair. So for some their attitude maybe "why bother?" My service rep is real good and I am a good customer. I try to purchase as much stuff as I can and let them do all my work that I don't feel like doing. If you can, plan one day to cause the symptom and run it to the dealer as soon as it happens and be persistent in wanting the repair done. The 2008's have already been noted as having a problem. My guess is that it is not a big enough problem or issue to Kawasaki to issue a service bulletin on their best seller. Especially if nobody complains.

This has also been noted on other forums as well;

A number of new-gen ninjette owners have experienced a strange problem that seems to be related to the CDI box, which is what controls the spark timing (among other things) for our engine to run properly. In a nutshell, when the CDI gets hot it sometimes misbehaves. Symptoms vary, but on many bikes with this issue the tach starts to behave strangely, bouncing around in the 7500 - 9000 range when the engine isn't moving as it represents. On other bikes the tach seems to read 1000 rpm higher when hot compared to cold, even when the bike is going the exact same speed as it was earlier. Some people report poor fuel economy.

The problem is that Kawasaki hasn't released an updated part or a guaranteed fix for the problem, the way it is usually dealt with is by replacing the CDI and/or the tach with the exact same part number, and hope that the 2nd one doesn't have the issue. In some cases it fixes it, but in some cases people are on their 2nd and 3rd CDI's and are still experiencing it. Hopefully Kawasaki will eventually get a more foolproof fix into the pipeline, but in the meantime this is one annoyance that if you do suffer from may continue to be an annoying problem to deal with.

 

[ninja250rRed]

Rpm Troubles Reply

Hi, Thanks for all of the information and tips.

I was wondering what you suggest i should do now? since i got the bike in august of 2011 it doesn't have a warranty anymore from what I know because its a 09. should I call my local dealer and ask them how much it will take to replace my IC igniter? as you said previously somewhere around $300, Or should i not tell them and just have it checked out because it hasn't been serviced since its break in?. currently at (1400) miles. Is it possible for me to do any of these things on my own so its cheaper? You also mentioned something about the CDI box im not sure what that is but can u replace by yourself?

I appreciate your help, Thanks again

 

[DaBlue1]

The CDI or IC igniter is what controls the spark timing (among other things) for our engine to run properly. It sits under the seat and is simply plugged into the wiring harness.

If you bought it from a dealer new, it should be under warranty. There are a few different things you can do.
1. Replace the tach yourself to see if it's just the tach that may be faulty
2. Replace the IC igniter yourself with an aftermarket one, that will also give you a performance boost. http://sportisimotorsport.us/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_11&products_id=12
3. See what the dealer will do for you and have them do all the work. Keep in mind, that all cost may be close to $700. The new cost of the igniter is $384 and the tach is $159

 

[ninja250rRed]

Unfortunately I got the bike off of Craigslist. So I don't think it is under warranty.

1. Could it really be the tachometer since it reads fine when I start it up? (1.3k rpm).
2. I will really look at buying this IC igniter, thanks for the link.
3. I just called the dealer and they said that they would run a diagnostic on it and it would take about an hour ($80 per hour). Then they would be able to fix whatever the problem was. I told him the problem but i don't think he knew about it. Do you think i should try cleaning the carbs and changing the oil?

Well now i have some good ideas as how to tackle the problem.

Thank You for your help.

 

[DaBlue1]

.... Do you think i should try cleaning the carbs and changing the oil?

Changing the oil and cleaning the carbs is always a good thing. Having the proper oil viscosity for higher ambient temps can help with keeping the bike running cooler. If the bike is idling and running fine, simply adding a good fuel treatment like Star Tron can help clean the carbs and fuel system internally as well as help improve combustion and mpg.

 

[ninja250rRed]

ok i will check on that...so did everything work out fine when you started riding in warm weather?

 

[DaBlue1]

Yeah. Everything is fine after Kawasaki replaced the tach and IC Igniter under warranty. I also use 20w-50 semi synthetic oil and have an external engine oil cooler to help with cooling the oil.

 

[zx9r]

DaBlue1, thought I'd give you some feedback about my bike. Bought it 25 May. Returned to dealer 29 May after Memorial Day weekend. It's been in the shop ever since. They say it may be ready Monday or Tuesday of this week. The ordered a fuel gauge sending unit to fix the inoperative fuel gauge problem. They say that they'll fix the 9,000 rpm at 60 mph problem too, but haven't told me how yet. That's it for now. The bike is supposed to be ready Monday or Tuesday. We'll see?

 

[ninja250rRed]

Hey DaBlue1

So I took my bike to reputable dealer my neighbor told me about. I ended up just getting a basic service and wanted to see if that would fix my problem since my bike needed a initial maintenance anyway. It cost me $70. They checked all liquids, changed oil, lubed chain, new brake pads, and all around check.

I was hoping that this would fix the problem. I got my hopes up when my idle no longer seem to have increased when i was at a light. But low and behold when i was 30 mins in riding and shifted into 6th gear MT RPM READ 5K!!! I was angry that the TUNE-UP didn't do it but wasn't surprised.

So my question for you was do you think I can get a USED CDI BOX form ebay? I have attached a link from a seller and was wondering if you can confirm if its the right thing I need.

Thanks Again,
Ninja250rRed--------> LINK BELOW

http://www.ebay.com/itm/08-12-Kawas...9763&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

 

[DaBlue1]

....Hey DaBlue1

So my question for you was do you think I can get a USED CDI BOX form ebay? I have attached a link from a seller and was wondering if you can confirm if its the right thing I need.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/08-12-Kawas...9763&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

Yes it should work. $50.00 ain't a bad deal.

 

[tadster00]

Hi, My name is shafia

I got my 09 250r in august and didn't have much riding in the fall. Now that its a lot warmer I am riding a little more. Today I noticed something In traffic my rpm gradually increased as I was at the same speed as the engine got warmer. 40MPh at 4.5 turned in 40MPh at 5.5k. Just a few minutes ago I checked the idle rpm and its seems fine 1.3k. I also turned the handlebars left and right not difference in RPM. This is bugging me please help if anyone can thanks.

Also, it has just a little over 1k miles and hasn't gone to the dealer after the break in period.

what's bugging you exactly?

The rpm's are going to increase as the bike goes from cold to warm, but the average rpm's should stay the same once it warms up to its normal functioning temperature

in order for this not to happen, when you first start the bike, leave it running for maybe 10 minutes and let the bike heat up a little bit and get to its set idle speed

 

[zx9r]

DaBlue1 - update. Kawasaki agreed to replace my tach (their idea, my first choice would have been the I/C) under warrenty. They did. It didn't change anything. I did change my gearing from 14/45 to 15/42 (and I bought a 39 tooth for later). I'm convinced the I/C is bad. When cold (for about 4 minutes, I've timed this about 10 times in the past two weeks and I've put 750 miles on my bike in those two weeks) the tach reads correctly. With the new gearing it starts reading 6,700 rpm's @ 60 mph, but only for about 3 or 4 miles, then it reads 8,000 to 8,100 rpm's. It does this in 107 degree weather (I live in the midwest, it's been hot recently) or in 75 degree weather (in the mornings), makes no difference. With the stock gearing cruising @ 60 mph I was averaging about 52 mpg. With 15/42 gearing I'm getting about 55.6 mpg. But the engine is still new and tight.

 

[DaBlue1]

@zx9r: 15/42 is nice huh? I tell you what I've done to help with keeping everything cooler.
I run 20w-50 semi synthetic oil year round ( I was only doing it in summer), I have an external oil cooler, I punched holes in the rubber holder around the IC ignitor and removed as much as possible to reduce the insulating affect of rubber (velcro was the next option), removed any unnecessary stuff under the passenger seat to allow better air flow across the IC ignitor. The only time I have the fan come on now is after hard long riding or idling in traffic with temps above 90 degrees. My fuel mixture is a little richer in the mid range (where I ride the most) to help with cooling as well.

 

[zx9r]

DaBlue1, may I ask what kind of 20w-50? Kawasaki oil? Also did you install a jet kit to get it to run better in the mid-range? Where'd you get the oil cooler? (website link?). Did you buy the aftermarket I/C that you recommended in another post? That seems to me to be the ultimate solution, perhaps Kawasaki's just produces too much heat? I notice my tach problems start quickly after a cold start (mornings), so the heat can't be coming from external sources (the I/C is under the seat a ways away from the engine, so it's NOT engine heat. I LOVE the gearing, but this bike surprises me, it has more mid-range than I thought it would have (I have a 1600 cc Nomad, and before that a ZX9R to compare my 250 too). Even though my tach reads high, I rarely have it above an indicated 9,000 rpm's. I think it might actually "pull" the 39 tooth rear gear with the 15 front, but don't care to try it now. Also I'm amazed that with the 15/42 gearing my rear axle is exactly wherer it was with the stock 14/45 gearing, so I think I would NOT have to remove a tooth out of the chain to try the 39 tooth gear, which overall would reduce the rpm's 19% from stock. The 15/42 gearing reduces it 12.88%. I like your posts alot, you seem very knowledgeable about these bikes and I'm sure others too.

 

[DaBlue1]

....what kind of 20w-50? Kawasaki oil? Also did you install a jet kit to get it to run better in the mid-range? Where'd you get the oil cooler? (website link?). Did you buy the aftermarket I/C that you recommended in another post?

I use CASTROL Actevo Semi-Synthetic 4-Stroke 20w-50 Motor Oil year round with no problems (I don't ride too much when the temps are below 50). The 20w-50 has been great. Smooth shifts, low buzz and good gas mileage.

I did not do a jet kit (there's a few good reasons why), but I did raise the needles about 1.5 mm removed the snorkel and installed a Pipercross Air Filter. The bike pulls and cruises nicely.

I got the external oil cooler from Thailand (where all the good stuff comes from). At the time I got it (2010), I paid about $90. Now they are almost 3 times that amount. Lowering the temperature of engine oil has many advantages, especially in air-cooled motors. So I jumped at the chance to get one when a member on another forum showed it on his son's racing Ninja 250 (whom he sponsors). As far as I know there are only 2 in the U.S.
He's not selling them anymore that I know of, but there are a couple of others that might. Here is one http://asiaproducts-factory.com/product_detail.php?product_id=6&brand_id=1&model_id=3
(Not sure how much these cost though)

The Sportisi BRT/TIS would have been the CDI I would have gone to had my IC ignitor continued to fail. It's an awesome unit that has dual maps and is plug and play. There are quit a few racers using the unit. If it didn't work well, I'm sure they would use it. I may still wind up getting one just to try it out. It does say it increases performance.

I forgot to mention, I also use ethanol free gas as much as possible.

 

[zx9r]

DaBlue1 - thanks for the info again. I used 15w-40 Shell Rotella T with half a bottle (around 7 ounces) of STP for 27,000 miles in my ZX9R. I changed the oil every 1,000 miles. (BTW - My one owner Ford Escort has 362,800 miles on it with Mobil 5000 and a whole bottle of STP. It uses NO oil and runs great! I'm sure it'll go 500,000 or more miles). The needle move seems simple and free except for my own labor. I know oil coolers are a good idea, I didn't know where I could get one, thanks. I might try the aftermarket IC. Around here ethanol free gas is hard to find, but I agree it's a good idea. Thanks again, you da man!