Now I idle high??? - Kawasaki Ninja 250R Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-27-2014, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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Question Now I idle high???

Hello,

Since the last time I came to this forum I put K&N high flow oil filter, a K&N high flow cotton air filter and an after market exhaust(danmoto JISU). I am now idling around 1600-1700 when warming from a cold start then around 1800-2000 after riding for bout 15-20 min. I have not touched the carb or throttle cable while have had the bike.

Does anyone have any idea why?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-27-2014, 07:39 PM
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When you say cold start do you mean no choke/choke off? When the choke is on it will make your bike idle higher. If it is still idling high when you turn the choke off and the engine is warm then the following applies. (When sitting on the bike choke on means it's pulled toward you, choke off means it's pushed away from you.)


The proper solution to your question is to have your carb rejetted in relation to the modifications you have just completed. You have just made it easier for air to enter and exit your engine and it is affecting other components. You can play with the idle adjustment thumbscrew on the left hand side of your bike to bring the idle down. It is at about knee level when sitting on the bike. But this will probably only be a bandaid fix? Your throttle response will probably suffer? Get the carb rejetted.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-27-2014, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you, I will look in to that. Is $80 an hour a decent price for a Mech. to look at and work on my bike
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-27-2014, 08:16 PM
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Not sure about the U.S. But up here when I took the 2012 in for its 1st 1000 kilometre service at the dealership the shop rate was $115/hr Canadian. So that doesn't sound too bad?
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Clownin View Post
Hello,

Since the last time I came to this forum I put K&N high flow oil filter, a K&N high flow cotton air filter and an after market exhaust(danmoto JISU). I am now idling around 1600-1700 when warming from a cold start then around 1800-2000 after riding for bout 15-20 min. I have not touched the carb or throttle cable while have had the bike.

Does anyone have any idea why?
With the Dan Moto exhaust and a K&N air filter, you need to at the very least shim the needles. Depending on your bike, you may also need to remove the snorkel. But this may also dependent on a few other factors like altitude, temp, and humidity.

Your idle speed should be adjusted to 1300 +/- 50 rpms after the engine is fully warmed and the choke is off. Even though it may sound smooth at 1500 rpms, it's not necessary unless it cuts out, then you have another problem.

Last edited by DaBlue1; 07-28-2014 at 07:28 AM.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=DaBlue1;51969]With the Dan Moto exhaust and a K&N air filter, you need to at the very least shim the needles. Depending on your bike, you may also need to remove the snorkel. But this may also dependent on a few other factors like altitude, temp, and humidity.

Is it better for the carbs to have a jet kit installed? That way the carbs can be synced/tuned with the engine. Will I have to adjust or have to adjust the carb after putting in the washers? Also, my bike came with the snorkel already removed. When I pulled off the stock exhaust, and was putting on the Danmoto, the pipes smelled a litte gasy like the carb may already be running rich. The carbs were re-jetted or shimmed, with the person possibly thinking the carb needed to be modded after removing the snorkel? I purchased my bike from an old boss that purchased it for someone that moved out of state and didn't pay for the bike hence why I now have purched the bike. He hadn't put more than 100 - 200 miles on the bike before I purchased so he hadn't pulled the carb out or done maintenance to it.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 11:01 AM
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....Is it better for the carbs to have a jet kit installed?
Only if the conditions warrant it. The stock #98 main jets work fine for most applications with the airbox intact. Elevations around a mile high is where you can benefit from using a smaller #95 jet, because the # 98 will run a little rich at elevations. Having the Dan Moto and K&N Air Filter will help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clownin View Post
..... Will I have to adjust or have to adjust the carb after putting in the washers? Also, my bike came with the snorkel already removed. When I pulled off the stock exhaust, and was putting on the Danmoto, the pipes smelled a litte gasy like the carb may already be running rich. The carbs were re-jetted or shimmed, with the person possibly thinking the carb needed to be modded after removing the snorkel?
If the snorkel was already removed and the exhaust smells a little rich, there is a possibility, the bike may have a jet kit or shimms already installed. The only way to tell is to pull the carbs, however if the bike is running and idling fine, I wouldn't mess with it, although I would check the plugs to see just how they look. I would probably even change to Iridiums.

Enjoy the ride and the noise.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 02:08 AM
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The Ninja 250, 08-12' is set up from the factory to be a bike that will pass California emissions. I don't live in California! I was having issues with my bike! I live In a city that is approximately 3500 feet above sea level. Took it in and had it re-jetted, problem solved! It was rejetted with the stage 2 dynojet kit. I have the # 96 main jets, idle was adjusted properly, carbs were balanced, Adjustable fuel needles that come in the dynojet kit are installed. I run stock exhaust and stock intake. I have very snappy throttle response and couldn't be happier. May have negatively affected my average fuel ratio slightly, but it was worth it! Take into account your regional differences and modifications then go from there. Maybe even call the dynojet tech line to see what they can specifically recommend for your set up and region? It is a little unclear in your posts, do you know if your carbs have already been jetted or not?

Last edited by TurtleSE; 07-29-2014 at 02:23 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 03:23 AM
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....The Ninja 250, 08-12' is set up from the factory to be a bike that will pass California emissions. I don't live in California!
Not all together true. There are two U.S. versions-a 49 State version and a California version, a Australian version, a European version, and Asian version. All of them have slightly different emissions.

What they all have in common is a similar AFR curve. For all technical purposes any AFR above 14.7:1 is lean any AFR below that is rich. So when people use the terms running lean or running rich it can be misleading.

Both generation Ninjas have a point where the AFR is close to the technically lean side. It is not uncommon in the low range (2k-5k RPM) to hit the 15.0:1 mark under moderate to hard acceleration for a few brief seconds, but the engine is not in danger, providing the main jets are not too small. Because the Ninja 250 runs at high rpms, it needs to run rich in the 12.8-13.2 range. With bigger jets the AFR can get around 11.1

Here is something everyone jetting a bike should read. It's from an article on Pipe Jetting.
" Carbureted powersports vehicle manufacturers do not jet their carburetors perfectly, for two reasons. First, there are emissions considerations, mostly affecting the idle and midrange carburetor circuits. Consequently these circuits are jetted leaner than normal, and should be richened slightly for better performance. However, this rarely requires more than an adjustment to the idle mixture screw, and in some cases an adjusted slide needle height. Second, manufacturers ship their product to many different places across the globe. They purposely jet too rich on the main jet, the carburetor circuit that presents the most liability in terms of engine overheating. Therefore, all road-going powersports vehicles are jetted "fat" on the main jet. Contrary to what many people believe, but true nonetheless. Manufacturers do this because they cannot jet individually for each market, so they simply err on the rich side rather than the lean side, because the latter would present more problems. The fact is, engines are much more forgiving of a 3% rich condition than an equal lean condition, and just as importantly, few customers will notice a rich main jet, while nearly all will complain about a lean one."


The dyno jet kit #96 main jet is commonly equated to a Keihin #97.5 main jet. Stock is a Keihin # 98.

Last edited by DaBlue1; 07-29-2014 at 03:43 AM.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 06:44 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, I have an '08 250. The manual that, I found under the seat, stated the bike is an EX250J. I still have not read through it completely. Since the 18th of July, this is what I have currently done to the bike: new oil mobile 1 4T race Syn 10w-40, new K&N high flow oil filter, new K&N high flow cotton air filter, Danmoto JISU slip on exhaust and last NGK Iridium spark plugs(yesterday) + almost 1100 miles haha. Before I had done anything to the bike the snorkel was already off and the bike idled smooth, at 1500 when warmed up. when I changed oil + filter and air filter, the bike started idling around 1800-1900 approx. When I put the exhaust on the dike started to idle around 2000 give/take 50. I retarded the idle with the adjustment knob on the left side of the bike to 1300-1400 approx.
My idle now bounces from 1400 to 1300 +/- 50 when the bike is warmed up. The guy I bought the bike from (my old boss) did not do any work to or even pull the fairings off the bike and only had put 100-200 miles on the bike before I bought it. A gal had the bike as a commuter to college and had taken it to a well known motorcycle shop in Vancouver, WA and had a tune up before the bike sat in a garage for approx. a year before my boss purchased it. That is all the information I have on the bike without taking it in and having it disected.

Last edited by Clownin; 07-29-2014 at 08:37 AM. Reason: Typo
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